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#8760636 Nov 25, 2013 at 02:13 PM · Edited 4 years ago
Member
175 Posts
Ok no doubt legs, feet are far better and af does not come with waist.

But when comparing body pieces other than def and mdef Darklight dont look much better. Spell speed is so important for a whm and darklight has determination instead... With darklight gear you also can not have a head piece so you have to compare to head and body.

AF gear

Healer's Circlet
34/68
Vitality + 7
Mind + 8
Piety + 7
Spell Speed + 10

Healer's Robe
50/98
Vitality + 25
Mind + 25
Piety + 25
Spell Speed + 16

So total is
84/166
vit +32
mnd +33
peity +32
spell speed +26


darklight body piece stats.

98/180
Vitality + 32
Mind + 33
Piety + 19
Determination + 29


So vit is the same and so is mind.

But piety is less which is important.
No spell speed which is important .
But 29 added determination.
Also yes the def is higher.. which I do like allot.
But really are the body pieces that much better?

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#8760769 Nov 25, 2013 at 02:40 PM · Edited 4 years ago
Moderator
242 Posts
I went with accessories first because piece by piece it didn't seem like too big of a difference, for a caster at least.
Piety is regarded as the most useless stat, where MP management takes over and you'll want the defense and determination more.
Piece by piece the differences aren't major, but the pants are typically a big upgrade and as a whole it all adds up.
You cannot hope to survive a Titan fight in AF, for example.
Darklight gear doesn't offer the most variety, but it is great in that you're gonna be able to get it by doing the usual endgame stuff and there's no presumption of materia needing to be melded for it to provide what you need.

Don't underestimate the importance of defense. It's easy to be of the mindset that being a caster means damage mitigation is not a concern or a very minor one, but there's plenty of unavoidable damage and if there wasn't playing perfect on these servers is not an option.

At 3200-3600 HP, on Titan, when he lands from a jump, WITH a pre-emptive top-off and WITH a scholar's damage reduction bubble, caster HP is LOW.

You want healing, defense and HP as good as you can get, and at least most pieces being DL gear will get you there.
My scholar's in WP and some better AK lvl 60 gear which is an upgrade from AF and I would not make it in Titan. I bring up Titan because that's the big gear check and precursor for earlier Binding Coil turns.
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#8760867 Nov 25, 2013 at 03:06 PM · Edited 4 years ago
Member
175 Posts
#8760769 Friggin Joe wrote:

I went with accessories first because piece by piece it didn't seem like too big of a difference, for a caster at least.
Piety is regarded as the most useless stat, where MP management takes over and you'll want the defense and determination more.
Piece by piece the differences aren't major, but the pants are typically a big upgrade and as a whole it all adds up.
You cannot hope to survive a Titan fight in AF, for example.
Darklight gear doesn't offer the most variety, but it is great in that you're gonna be able to get it by doing the usual endgame stuff and there's no presumption of materia needing to be melded for it to provide what you need.

Don't underestimate the importance of defense. It's easy to be of the mindset that being a caster means damage mitigation is not a concern or a very minor one, but there's plenty of unavoidable damage and if there wasn't playing perfect on these servers is not an option.



For a whm mnd is by far the most important.

I have always gone for efficiency/mp management too in FFXI over mp, but xtra mp sure cant hurt a mage.

I agree defense is very important.

How does determination help a whm.. A damage dealing mage sure like BLM or SMN det helps allot.. It does nothing for a whm where it is replacing spell speed which surly is important. Determination Increases the amount of damage dealt by all attacks and the amount of HP recovered by spells. Others having determination can help a whm though..

Also I did say the other pieces are far better for sure but the body I am not convinced is that much of a upgrade other than some defense which is important.
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#8760927 Nov 25, 2013 at 03:19 PM · Edited 4 years ago
Site Adminis...
279 Posts
Determination not only affects damage done, it also affects healing done. The more determination a WHM has the bigger the heals, now I don't know how that affects your HPS verses spell speed, but it does give your heals a bit more per spell.
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#8761032 Nov 25, 2013 at 03:41 PM · Edited 4 years ago
Member
175 Posts
#8760927 princessary wrote:

Determination not only affects damage done, it also affects healing done. The more determination a WHM has the bigger the heals, now I don't know how that affects your HPS verses spell speed, but it does give your heals a bit more per spell.



Mind affect how big your cures are.

Determination Increases the amount of damage dealt by all attacks and the amount of HP recovered by spells.


Determination affects the cures you receive so if your determination is higher you will receive a bigger cure. That is how I read it.

I have searched and some do say it affects the size of cures and other say they have tested it and it did nothing for cures. One person says 4 determination = 1 mnd.

I would really like to know for sure. I might have to test it out myself.
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#8761089 Nov 25, 2013 at 03:50 PM
Site Adminis...
279 Posts
#8761032 Sir Nashred wrote:

#8760927 princessary wrote:

Determination not only affects damage done, it also affects healing done. The more determination a WHM has the bigger the heals, now I don't know how that affects your HPS verses spell speed, but it does give your heals a bit more per spell.



Mind affect how big your cures are.

Determination Increases the amount of damage dealt by all attacks and the amount of HP recovered by spells.


Determination affects the cures you receive so if your determination is higher you will receive a bigger cure. That is how I read it.

I have searched and some do say it affects the size of cures and other say they have tested it and it did nothing for cures. One person says 4 determination = 1 mnd.

I would really like to know for sure. I might have to test it out myself.

I know that about Mind, I guess I just read the description of determination differently. What I get from that is that the HP recovered when you cast a healing spell will be more, otherwise I would think that it would read HP recieved.
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#8761253 Nov 25, 2013 at 04:28 PM · Edited 4 years ago
Member
175 Posts
#8761089 princessary wrote:

#8761032 Sir Nashred wrote:

#8760927 princessary wrote:

Determination not only affects damage done, it also affects healing done. The more determination a WHM has the bigger the heals, now I don't know how that affects your HPS verses spell speed, but it does give your heals a bit more per spell.



Mind affect how big your cures are.

Determination Increases the amount of damage dealt by all attacks and the amount of HP recovered by spells.


Determination affects the cures you receive so if your determination is higher you will receive a bigger cure. That is how I read it.

I have searched and some do say it affects the size of cures and other say they have tested it and it did nothing for cures. One person says 4 determination = 1 mnd.

I would really like to know for sure. I might have to test it out myself.

I know that about Mind, I guess I just read the description of determination differently. What I get from that is that the HP recovered when you cast a healing spell will be more, otherwise I would think that it would read HP recieved.


Yea I can see how that could be read that way... In that case if you and Joe are right and I am reading it wrong than yea it is much better.

Well not too hard to test, just need to grab some Acc that have Det and test it.

If so that could make it a big difference even if 4 det = 1 mind.

Can you attach materia to darklight gear? ... Spell speed could be added
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#8761306 Nov 25, 2013 at 04:36 PM · Edited 4 years ago
Moderator
242 Posts
The description is vague on determination. Healing received is pretty much one accepted trait.
When you need to throw out group heals it's a huge help to have a higher determination as a caster when possible because you get to the target-healing quicker. You're one of the low HP gang and the quicker you're topped off the better.

The cowl example isn't as pronounced a difference because it replaces a level 50 chest piece (which is already pretty nice), and it including the head is maybe 100 tome or so break from the overall cost.
The belt (obv) and pants are pretty major.

The game designers may not be so forthcoming in what stats really do what for who, but they did design it so the DL gear is a known working set for a certain level of play. I consider it a straightforward path to take during endgame. I'm sure crafted gear with materia melded would put DL to shame and maybe even be better than AF2 in some cases.

I'm not a big fan of just adhering to general rules and no matter what, when getting that tome gear it make sense to use your own judgement and fill in the gaps first. I wasn't 100% DL, my pants and 2 accessories were crafted/AK.

Definitely post your findings, as you find them. Hell, I got two AK accessories I have no intention of upgrading. Spend nearly 1000 tomes for 1-2 points of int or something? I got a gimpy healer to gear up :D

Thankfully prior to Titan, and a milder extent Garuda, there's almost nothing you're excluded from before you're full-DL or near it, even in terms of "random group acceptance" (you know, "dude you're in an Ifrit fight and not even all DL yet!").
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#8761566 Nov 25, 2013 at 05:45 PM
Member
74 Posts
IMO, spell speed is something you're either going all the way in or not bothering with. As it is, not sure if there's a gear to fully commit to spell speed while keeping your HP up before DL. Maybe a mix of myth gear and vanya, but keep lvl 45 gear isn't worth the item points you're giving up IMO. That being said, I think the body head combo was the last thing I replaced.
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#8764119 Nov 26, 2013 at 09:54 AM · Edited 4 years ago
Member
175 Posts
DET increases the potency for the person receiving the heal not the person giving it.

MND increases the potency for the person giving the heal not the person receiving it.

For the person receiving the heal MND has no effect.

For the person giving the heal DET has no effect.


That is a post from reddit on determination and that is the way I read it to be too... I have look all over for a reliable post on this from a reliable source and no go

But I still see how it could be read the other way still..

I wont be able to test this out till I get back on Sunday. I might be on for a little bit tonight but want to do a WP run if I can.

If any body finds anything on determination I would be very interested.

Also if someone has some Accessories with determination I could try a test on but I dont think that would work in this game because I will be unable to trade them back right? they will start to spirit bind.
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#8764164 Nov 26, 2013 at 10:02 AM
Site Adminis...
279 Posts
Why not try healing a target dummy (don't know if you can since I haven't tried it) with and without the DET boost?
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#8764465 Nov 26, 2013 at 11:06 AM
Member
175 Posts
#8764164 princessary wrote:

Why not try healing a target dummy (don't know if you can since I haven't tried it) with and without the DET boost?



Well that was kind of my idea a dummy or a person, I think I have healed dummies before.. I just need something that raises Determination with out affecting any of my other stats... Is there potions for determination? I dont think there is..
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#8764607 Nov 26, 2013 at 11:41 AM
Member
74 Posts
#8764465 Sir Nashred wrote:

#8764164 princessary wrote:

Why not try healing a target dummy (don't know if you can since I haven't tried it) with and without the DET boost?



Well that was kind of my idea a dummy or a person, I think I have healed dummies before.. I just need something that raises Determination with out affecting any of my other stats... Is there potions for determination? I dont think there is..


There's a couple of foods that affect DET, VIT, ACC/Crit. Didn't see any pots, but the other stats on the food shouldn't have any impact on what you're testing. Here's the list from xivdb: http://bit.ly/1cqvJ25

hope the link pulls up correctly.
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#8764652 Nov 26, 2013 at 11:49 AM
Member
175 Posts
#8764607 Gong Jr wrote:

#8764465 Sir Nashred wrote:

#8764164 princessary wrote:

Why not try healing a target dummy (don't know if you can since I haven't tried it) with and without the DET boost?



Well that was kind of my idea a dummy or a person, I think I have healed dummies before.. I just need something that raises Determination with out affecting any of my other stats... Is there potions for determination? I dont think there is..


There's a couple of foods that affect DET, VIT, ACC/Crit. Didn't see any pots, but the other stats on the food shouldn't have any impact on what you're testing. Here's the list from xivdb: http://bit.ly/1cqvJ25

hope the link pulls up correctly.


Great idea on the food.. I probably already have some of it too....
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#8766042 Nov 26, 2013 at 04:55 PM
Officer
146 Posts
So, would making Vanya and putting +VIT in it be a good idea?
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#8766515 Nov 26, 2013 at 06:57 PM
Moderator
242 Posts
#8764465 Sir Nashred wrote:

#8764164 princessary wrote:

Why not try healing a target dummy (don't know if you can since I haven't tried it) with and without the DET boost?



Well that was kind of my idea a dummy or a person, I think I have healed dummies before.. I just need something that raises Determination with out affecting any of my other stats... Is there potions for determination? I dont think there is..


I can probably make 2 star lvl 50 food.
Black Truffle Risotto caps at 14 on normal quality, so it's probably abound 17,18 determination HQ
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#8766813 Nov 26, 2013 at 08:29 PM · Edited 4 years ago
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3 Posts
I have to say it would seem you've picked up slightly skewed figures. I'm not sure where the stats for the Healer's robe come from, but they're actually much lower. Well, the Defense figures are right, it's just the others. VIT and MND are only 14, PIE is 13 and Spell Speed is 16.

Here's the progression from Healer's through Strategos to Darklight for head and body combined:


Healer's Strategos Darklight

84 / 166 92 / 172 98 / 180

VIT 21 VIT 26 VIT 32
MND 22 MND 26 MND 33
PIE 20 PIE 24 PIE 19
SPS 26 SPS 28 DET 29


Going straight from AF to Darklight, that's +12 Def, +14 MDef, +11 VIT, +10 MND, -1 PIE, -26 SPS, +29 DET.

Going from Strategos to Darklight, +6 Def, +8 MDef, +6 VIT, +7 MND, -5 PIE, -28 SPS, +29 DET.

It's hard to ignore the sizeable loss of HP derived from VIT, and healing potency from MND, even if Spell Speed proved to be the better of the two secondary stats. I imagined SPS to be so much more when I first started playing that I geared my CNJ that way for a while, but when you look at the actual reductions in cast time it takes lots of it for it to make a noticeable difference. Having said that, I'm not sure how much it has been tested, and data might be lacking. I have no doubt it does help, albeit in a small way. It may be that we learn more arguments for it in the future. Better yet, maybe it'll get some sort of adjustment/buff and I can live out my RDM fastcast fantasies. 8)

I'd love to find a way to weave this stat into my gear without compromising other things.
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#8766922 Nov 26, 2013 at 09:07 PM · Edited 4 years ago
Member
175 Posts
#8766813 Auli Oxen wrote:

I have to say it would seem you've picked up slightly skewed figures. I'm not sure where the stats for the Healer's robe come from, but they're actually much lower. Well, the Defense figures are right, it's just the others. VIT and MND are only 14, PIE is 13 and Spell Speed is 16.

Here's the progression from Healer's through Strategos to Darklight for head and body combined:


Healer's Strategos Darklight

84 / 166 92 / 172 98 / 180

VIT 21 VIT 26 VIT 32
MND 22 MND 26 MND 33
PIE 20 PIE 24 PIE 19
SPS 26 SPS 28 DET 29


Going straight from AF to Darklight, that's +12 Def, +14 MDef, +11 VIT, +10 MND, -1 PIE, -26 SPS, +29 DET.

Going from Strategos to Darklight, +6 Def, +8 MDef, +6 VIT, +7 MND, -5 PIE, -28 SPS, +29 DET.

It's hard to ignore the sizeable loss of HP derived from VIT, and healing potency from MND, even if Spell Speed proved to be the better of the two secondary stats. I imagined SPS to be so much more when I first started playing that I geared my CNJ that way for a while, but when you look at the actual reductions in cast time it takes lots of it for it to make a noticeable difference. Having said that, I'm not sure how much it has been tested, and data might be lacking. I have no doubt it does help, albeit in a small way. It may be that we learn more arguments for it in the future. Better yet, maybe it'll get some sort of adjustment/buff and I can live out my RDM fastcast fantasies. 8)

I'd love to find a way to weave this stat into my gear without compromising other things.





I cut and pasted it from here:

http://www.ign.com/wikis/final-fantasy-xiv/Job_Quest_Sets

Looks like a error and you are right.... Every other site I look on says 14... Crap this whole thing is completely wrong. The body piece is a big upgrade then.... You know I should have known it was to high and a mistake because it just made no sense, I kind of feel stupid.... Nice catch....

Still need to find out about determination so maybe something still can come out of this thread.

Might as well delete this thread,,,
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#8772467 Nov 28, 2013 at 07:18 AM
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3 Posts
Don't feel silly about it. I only went to the trouble of checking because I hoped somehow it was true, and maybe I wouldn't have to wear that ugly Darklight cowl. :P

I'll have a look around for tests of Spell Speed vs. other stats.
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